In The News

107,776 Views | 4184 Replies | Last: 5 hrs ago by TRILL WALTON
Green Goblin
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OregonDonor said:

This goes right along with the Agents of Chaos stuff. I'd assume the Russians were given this data to help deter black people from voting, which is exactly what they did.

This kind of tactic deserves part of the credit/blame for getting Trump elected, but Hillary deserves more blame for running a garbage campaign that inspired very few to vote for her. If they'd tried this against Obama it wouldn't have worked.

Hillary was a terrible candidate. I didn't like her and only gave in because I knew the alternative would be the crap show we have today. I'm an independent and am often amazed at how clueless dems are when it comes to elections and having a solid read on their base. Obama was a gift.
DMVDUCK
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Green Goblin said:

OregonDonor said:

This goes right along with the Agents of Chaos stuff. I'd assume the Russians were given this data to help deter black people from voting, which is exactly what they did.

This kind of tactic deserves part of the credit/blame for getting Trump elected, but Hillary deserves more blame for running a garbage campaign that inspired very few to vote for her. If they'd tried this against Obama it wouldn't have worked.

Hillary was a terrible candidate. I didn't like her and only gave in because I knew the alternative would be the crap show we have today. I'm an independent and am often amazed at how clueless dems are when it comes to elections and having a solid read on their base. Obama was a gift.


Being in a religion and being a Democrat is very similar for me. Like we have most of the same beliefs and ideals but u really don't like being associated with a lot of the people and leaders in these groups.
Green Goblin
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So true. Dems are definitely not a monilith. I mostly feel on an island. As a progressive it's political homelessness.
Duckwad
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ORNative said:

One thing that's true is listening to the talking heads on TV talking about Trumps taxes is blatantly obvious that they have no idea what they are talking about when trying to analyze taxes this complicated AND....

And if I was going to use an analogy you guys sound as knowledgeable as a bunch of guys on a recruiting web site who think they know more than the coach(s) who are coaching the team. lol.

It's no secret Trump has always been he wilt leveraged and Its no secret his bean counters use every trick in the book to negate his tax obligations.

So far there is nothing surprising here. Maybe there will be but there isn't right now. One thing that is blatantly obvious is that initially the reason the Libs wanted Trumps tax returns was to prove he had ties to Russia and Putin. This proves once again no connection.

So here's an article from a tax professor (and tax lawyer) that breaks down the NYT article. This isn't some talking head who doesn't understand tax liabilities or tax law. To use your analogy, this would be a coach breaking down game film, not a fan with little actual knowledge of how the game is played.
Worth the short read if you're actually interested in how this has exposed Trump as either an awful business man (best case scenario) or an over leveraged tax cheat (probably both).
ORNative
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Libertarian Voters Flock To Trump After Learning He Avoided Paying Taxes
September 28th, 2020

U.S.Trump is polling high among an unexpected group: libertarians, who were energized and drawn to Trump's cause after the New York Times revealed that he paid as little as $750 in federal taxes some years.

"Only paying a few hundred in federal theft? This guy is my hero!" said libertarian man Murray Mickelson of New Hampshire. "If only all of us could be that smart with our taxes."
"The less theft, the better!"
Libertarians across the country paid tribute to Trump's accomplishment by firing their AR-15s into the air and doing hard drugs, though this is what they were already planning on doing anyway.
Jo Jorgenson's poll numbers have plummeted as a result of the revelation, with both of her supporters saying they're switching to Trump.

When the law no longer protects you from the corrupt, but protects the corrupt from you, you know your nation is doomed - Ayn Rand
Nix
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ORNative said:


So far there is nothing surprising here. Maybe there will be but there isn't right now. One thing that is blatantly obvious is that initially the reason the Libs wanted Trumps tax returns was to prove he had ties to Russia and Putin. This proves once again no connection.
You sure? Who holds his debt?
BigRickDuck535
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Nix said:

ORNative said:


So far there is nothing surprising here. Maybe there will be but there isn't right now. One thing that is blatantly obvious is that initially the reason the Libs wanted Trumps tax returns was to prove he had ties to Russia and Putin. This proves once again no connection.
You sure? Who holds his debt?


Yeah half a billion dollars in personal debt. Not business loans because no one would loan to him anymore.. personal debt. Based on his losses too if it's to up and up banks he likely lied about his income / holdings valuation was massively overstated which is fraud. As well as paying his daughter and such for consulting fees, then writing them off as loss could also be fraud.

So very likely he has half a billion dollars owed to either super shady people or foreign governments banking on his good attitude towards them so they don't start stripping assets off of him which would effectively leave him with nothing.
KevinRileyFTW
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So people in Scotland have known for a while that Trump's properties are super sketchy.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/question-how-donald-trumps-scottish-resorts-are-financed-just-became-even-more-urgent-2985977
Duckwad
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ORNative
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Over 125,000 of them. Human error or something else?
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/29/nyregion/absentee-ballot-nyc-brooklyn.html

When the law no longer protects you from the corrupt, but protects the corrupt from you, you know your nation is doomed - Ayn Rand
ORNative
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If true...Not good!

https://texasscorecard.com/local/affidavits-allege-democrat-officials-planning-colossal-illegal-ballot-harvesting-scheme/

When the law no longer protects you from the corrupt, but protects the corrupt from you, you know your nation is doomed - Ayn Rand
Duckwad
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ORNative said:

Over 125,000 of them. Human error or something else?
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/29/nyregion/absentee-ballot-nyc-brooklyn.html

Where are you fabricating the 125,000 number from? The answer to your other question seems to be answered in the article you linked.
Duckwad
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ORNative said:

If true...Not good!

https://texasscorecard.com/local/affidavits-allege-democrat-officials-planning-colossal-illegal-ballot-harvesting-scheme/

Lol. Quite literally some Trumped up bull***** Texasscorecard.com LOL, and you lecture us about sources.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.houstonchronicle.com/politics/texas/amp/What-is-Empower-Texans-A-look-at-the-group-14273613.php

Are you going to post some project veritas next?
TRILL WALTON
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People should have to pass an IQ test in order to use the internet.

People like ORNative would flunk out and it would become the information-sharing utopia it was envisioned to be, not the black hole of nonsense that it is currently.
OregonDonor
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This is just sad.


Green Goblin
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5 dumb*ucks. Steve King is not a suprise. He's an alt right racist turd who believes in eugenics. Good thing he lost his re-election bid.

ORNative
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The Swedish Bumblebee

There is this odd story about bumblebees and flying. You know, these oval, buzzing, funny-looking insects that we often find hovering around our gardens in summer. The story, as I heard it, is that the bumblebee defies the laws of aerodynamics: it shouldn't be capable of flying with those tiny wings and that monster of a body (for an insect, anyway). Allegedly, it doesn't generate enough lifting power for its chubby body to take flight. (Just to make sure: this is false and the bumblebee's flight is perfectly consistent with the laws of aerodynamics).
Yet, the bumblebee is flying. Clearly, these annoying little insects defy gravity every single day, suggesting commonsensically that there wasn't much point in supposing that they couldn't. In any case, the bumblebees of the world didn't care much for the musings of mice and men; they kept buzzing around, blissfully ignorant of their apparently supernatural powers.
In the world's eyes, Sweden holds a similar position. Its economy always did much better than we'd except at a first-pass analysis. With the corona pandemic, we now have another episode of the Swedish Bumblebee story.
Economically, Sweden shouldn't be as successful as it is. According to most economic thinking, a large government sector, the world's highest marginal tax rates, strong unions, and a generous welfare state should result in an economy with lots of slack and a society of slackers. Yet, it prevails: in GDP-per-capita terms it does at least as well as its European peers, markedly outperforms the allegedly free market-loving Britain and trails the United States only by about 1415% on aggregate levels. While its unemployment rate usually hovers a few percentage points above the British or American one, Sweden routinely scores well on quality-of-life rankings and it has long had the highest labor participation rate in the European Union. On top of that, Stockholm's tech start-up scene rivals the global metropolises of the world.
There is no shortage of explanations to account for Sweden's odd economic behavior. Those on the left have usually invoked feedback loops from a large social safety net, redistributive taxes, societal trust, or universal health care. Others point to early widespread literacy, universal schooling, a strong work ethic, and strong cohesive communities. Right-wing explanations often rely on shared identities, values, and sometimes even ethnic homogeneity. Free-marketeers of one variety or another have usually said that it's because at heart Sweden is a hyper-capitalist economy how else could it afford to pay for such an outrageously large and generous state apparatus?
None of these explanations are ironclad; if they were, we wouldn't have an argument over them. Virtually every Western country has high-quality universal health care; literacy has been near-universal for generations; and Sweden doesn't score that well in rankings of economic freedom.
While international academics and policy wonks debate what's fueling Sweden's success and what portion of Swedish society could effectively translate into their countries the Swedish bumblebee hovers along, unperturbed by stories about its success. Blissfully ignorant of the many ideological attempts to prove its inability of flying, it flies all the same.
With the pandemic, we've now received another data point for the Swedish bumblebee saga. Naturally, this one also comes ready-made to fit one's prior ideological beliefs. For those who say that lockdown is the answer to every problem, Sweden's relatively more open approach should have led to mass casualties, topping the charts of per-capita deaths. It doesn't. Its admittedly dismal outcome is surpassed by the heaviest of lockdowners: U.S., U.K., Spain etc.
If you believe that lockdowns work to prevent the spread of the disease and deaths, Sweden is performing annoyingly well and should be a sobering wake-up call. It hasn't done too much in the way of closing society: it didn't close borders, schools, bars, shopping malls or almost anything else, but it still has fewer per-capita deaths than many countries that threw everything and the kitchen sink against the virus.
For those who say that lockdowns are pointless power moves and symbolic expressions of societal self-harm, Sweden is the grand hero in terms of keeping society open. Then again, many, many more have lost their lives there than in the fortress-style lockdowns of Australia and New Zealand, South Korea and Iceland not to mention the neighboring countries of Norway, Finland or Denmark whose death rates are one-tenth to one-fifth of Sweden's. That's awkward if you, myself included, think that politicians of the world have reacted too harshly for too long.
While the partisan stories line up and the spin doctors have sharpened their Sweden story, Sweden itself has ignored their musings just like the calm, humble bumblebee it is. Wide-eyed, most Swedes have watched remarkably inaccurate international coverage of its pandemic policy then shrugged it off, returned to their home offices, washed their hands with sanitizers and kept their distance while out and about.
Throughout the pandemic Sweden has followed its own decentralized public health governance and its politicians have mostly stepped out of the way, dealing with the pandemic calmly and prudently. Despite an avalanche of foreign criticism of its pandemic response, it has held its ground, mostly immune to foreign rumblings, denunciations, and indignant judgments. The bumblebee keeps flying, unflustered by all the attention.
Outliers be outliers
In any scientific venture, outliers attract attention. They're either intentionally ignored, waved away as something peculiar, or ruthlessly attacked for misbehaving. Of course, outliers point out that something is fundamentally wrong with our basic model.
On economic well-being, it's clear that a country with an invasively large government sector and extraordinarily high taxes can still perform well. In the corona debates, the simplified story that lockdowns prevent spread and open societies kill people should be relegated to the dustbin of impressive theories at odds with reality.
Admiring the Scandinavian land of IKEA, Volvo, ABBA, Spotify, and Klarna, everyone can fuel their priors; confirmation bias for all! All the while the bumblebee bumbles along, uninterested in your imagined reasons for why it flies.


When the law no longer protects you from the corrupt, but protects the corrupt from you, you know your nation is doomed - Ayn Rand
GorgeDuck
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"Two human sources are identified as being central to the judgments in the intelligence assessment. One of the sources has reported various threats since 2017 and some of the information reported has since been corroborated. The report mentions one source, claiming to have "direct access" to the Boogaloos, quoting a heavily armed member's intentions to "hunt" anti-fascist anarchists and shoot any looters. The language echoes that of President Trump, who, following this summer's civil unrest, tweeted, 'When the looting starts, the shooting starts.'"

"The intelligence report concludes by citing concerns of the Boogaloos' "increased 'patrolling' or attendance at events" amenable to their cause. You might say those orders are coming from the topat the presidential debate last night, President Trump called for his supporters to patrol polling places. 'I'm urging my supporters to go into the polls and watch very carefully because that's what has to happen,' Trump said."

https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/white-supremacist-boogaloo/
OregonDonor
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It's very similar to when he requested Russia to hack Hillary's emails. He acted like he was joking, but he's not. He's done this on numerous occasions where he'll put things out there, and his people follow through for him.

It's very clear what he's trying to do.

Suppress the vote- As was made public the other day, he had a list of hundreds of millions of people, and they were all categorized as to whether they could be deterred or not. In areas that had a high enough percentage of deterrable voters the Trump campaign and Russia brought out an all out assault on those voters urging them not to vote.
Republicans also use an array of other tactics like voter I.D. laws, closing voting stations in high democrat areas, and sometimes intimidation, like he's calling for now.

Undermining the legitimacy of the election- Trump and his cohorts like FoxNews are citing(almost entirely false) claims of voter fraud. Nearly all of the alleged fraudulent incidents are being found to the false, or so minor and isolated they'd have no effect. The problem is that when the FoxNews watching types hear it enough, they begin to believe there's got to be something there. And the narrative of widespread voter fraud become accepted as a truth among those people even though the FBI has said there's no evidence of widespread voter fraud in America.
onaduck
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Huge fan of Katy Porter. Huge fan:

onaduck
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GorgeDuck
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onaduck said:


Yeah, but Trump is gonna send all senior citizens a $200 prescription coupon card prior to the election, so really, we can just call this one pretty much even.
Nix
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ORNative said:

The Swedish Bumblebee

There is this odd story about bumblebees and flying. You know, these oval, buzzing, funny-looking insects that we often find hovering around our gardens in summer. The story, as I heard it, is that the bumblebee defies the laws of aerodynamics: it shouldn't be capable of flying with those tiny wings and that monster of a body (for an insect, anyway). Allegedly, it doesn't generate enough lifting power for its chubby body to take flight. (Just to make sure: this is false and the bumblebee's flight is perfectly consistent with the laws of aerodynamics).


You forgot to cite the source:

https://www.aier.org/article/the-swedish-bumblebee/

Sweden has indeed, in many ways, over many decades been a much better United States than the United States.

I know you didn't use this as an anti-lockdown message, but there are some issues I'd point out:

Lets start here:
"With the pandemic, we've now received another data point for the Swedish bumblebee saga. Naturally, this one also comes ready-made to fit one's prior ideological beliefs. For those who say that lockdown is the answer to every problem, Sweden's relatively more open approach should have led to mass casualties, topping the charts of per-capita deaths. It doesn't. Its admittedly dismal outcome is surpassed by the heaviest of lockdowners: U.S., U.K., Spain etc."

To call the US a "heavy lockdowner" is laughable. We might have claimed lockdown, but there is scant evidence that we had significant lockdown in many areas. Indeed, California is oft cited as the lockdown capital of the US. However, huge swaths of California never locked down or masked. For example, the Imperial Valley. Some have suggested that the Swedes had a greater effective lockdown rate. On my part, I have no proof, but pandemics do the same thing throughout history. They spread by exposure and human contact. Death rates vary by vector and health care.


Second issue is in the second paragraph. I'm not sure how we can on one hand praise Sweden for doing so well and on the other hand damn them for have death rates far higher than all the countries mentioned in the second paragraph below:

"If you believe that lockdowns work to prevent the spread of the disease and deaths, Sweden is performing annoyingly well and should be a sobering wake-up call. It hasn't done too much in the way of closing society: it didn't close borders, schools, bars, shopping malls or almost anything else, but it still has fewer per-capita deaths than many countries that threw everything and the kitchen sink against the virus.
For those who say that lockdowns are pointless power moves and symbolic expressions of societal self-harm, Sweden is the grand hero in terms of keeping society open. Then again, many, many more have lost their lives there than in the fortress-style lockdowns of Australia and New Zealand, South Korea and Iceland not to mention the neighboring countries of Norway, Finland or Denmark whose death rates are one-tenth to one-fifth of Sweden's."

I'm not sure why people are continuing to fight about this.

Don't gather in big groups, wear masks, isolate.

Do that for the next pandemic, too. Lets hope the next one, like Covid, isn't all that fatal. Think what a 10% or 50% death rate might look like.

OregonDonor
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Howard
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OregonDonor said:



GorgeDuck
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OregonDonor said:


To be fair, she (or Trump) probably don't actually understand the difference.
LikeLamike
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Lol... Man the conservatives have lost their gourd
LikeLamike
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I hope to god he pulls out of the debates. Holy s*** it would be such a sign of weakness.
onaduck
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LikeLamike said:



I hope to god he pulls out of the debates. Holy s*** it would be such a sign of weakness.

I would actually rather he just keep yelling and interrupting. Changing the rules to cut the mics when people are talking just means the candidates get to talk. We already know Trump is just going to make stuff up, so what's he even going to say? Just let Trump keep looking like an A-hole and turning off voters he needs by letting him do his unhinged crazy man thing, and let Biden say as little as possible. All Biden has to do is say he wants to bring the country back together and that Trump is going to kill more people and cut health care to millions and cause seniors to pay more money for prescription drugs and that he's likely a white supremacist who owes lots of money to foreign interests. It's easy enough to get that in while Trump yells around about stuff.

It's like when people were saying the press shouldn't even cover Trump's covid press conferences. Trump was saying and acting and doing all kinds of crazy stuff and it culminated in him saying people could inject disinfectant. The more Trump talks the better. The less Biden talks the better.

So what if people keep saying America is embarrassing itself. The more ashamed we are the better.
OregonDonor
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Suppressing the vote, man.



kg0220
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Coup in progress. This will lead to bloodshed.


Thanks GOP for ruining this country even more directly than before.
DMVDUCK
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Exactly. He feels like he won because he talked the loudest and the most. By the end he had dug himself such a massive hole that even a bunch of his own supporters turned away. Based on polling Trump did terrible and looked like a crazy person to most undecideds. I was skeptical of how well the biden strategy of just looking into the camera and talking would be but it suprised the hell out of me how well it was received. Especially when contrasted with Trump.
Duckwad
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Important thread
Duckwad
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If it weren't all so terrifying, this administration **** show would be extremely funny.

Howard
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